Tuesday, January 15, 2013

Steve Chalke and Equal Marriage


Every time LGBT rights issues comes up in a church context I am reminded of a conversation I had many years ago with two Christian friends. The first was a Theology and Philosophy student – a real intellectual – who believed that the 21st Century Church didn’t take sin seriously enough. He referred to the fact that under Old Testament Law, the descendants of adultery were excluded from the Temple for several generations. At this, my second friend went purple. Unbeknownst to my first friend, she was herself the product of an adulterous relationship – and it was something she had always really struggled to come to terms with. She wasn’t from a religious family at all but had found acceptance within the Christian faith because she recognised that she had been adopted into God’s family as both a daughter and an heir. When Jesus died on the cross, the curtain of the Temple was torn in two and this enables all people – including all those excluded under Old Testament Law - to have direct access to the Father God. Jesus’s entire ministry saw Him reach out to people who had previously been excluded.

I remember my second friend repeating the line “Go away and read What’s so Amazing About Grace by Philip Yancey”. I hadn’t read that book at the time but when I did, I understood what she was getting at. Yancey’s thesis was that whilst churches preach a gospel of grace (God’s unmerited kindness to humanity shown through Jesus Christ) they, too often become places of Ungrace – where people end up becoming excluded because of who they are or what they have done. LGBT people aren’t the only people to suffer in this way. Never married singles, divorcees, the childless, the unemployed can all feel that church is somewhere where they don’t quite fit in. This can be aggravated by the fact that the political agenda of churches is too often so marriage-centric that a non-believer might be forgiven for thinking that heterosexual marriage was compulsory for Christians.

This is, of course, wrong. From the Old Testament prophets to the Letters of Paul, the bible honours the single and the childless. Jesus Himself was single and childless and honours those who either by choice or circumstance never have a family of their own. For many centuries, the church was almost anti-marriage seeing the monastic life as a more superior way of Christian living than marriage and family. It was only with Martin Luther marrying an escaped nun that things changed. As is often the case, we end up “throwing the baby out with the bathwater” so to speak and with the dissolution of the monasteries we took away the key context in which never-married single adults could build abiding friendships and stability in their personal relationships.

This is where I believe that we have gone wrong in our dealings with the LGBT community. We cannot preach a marriage-centric gospel and then tell LGBT people to stay single. We cannot worship at the altar of the nuclear family – an entirely 20th century creation – and expect LGBT to live alone. And we cannot preach a gospel of grace and expect LGBT people to leave their homosexuality at the church door. In short, we are so far from being the kind of church that Jesus intended that we are in no place to throw Leviticus at the LGBT community.

Don’t get me wrong: I’m not proposing we bring back the monasteries. What I am saying is that, as Christians, we have too often closed our ears and our hearts to the realities of being LGBT. We talk about celibacy in the same way we talk about giving up chocolate – as if it really isn’t that difficult; we talk about loneliness as if it’s something Christians shouldn’t struggle with because, after all “God is always with us” and we only worry about people who live alone if they are over retirement age – as if the under-65’s actually enjoy eating Sunday lunch alone.

Steve Chalke is right to raise the issue of the suicide rates in the LGBT community and also to highlight the fact that exclusion from the Church probably aggravates the propensity to promiscuity. Genuine homophobia is, in my experience, widespread in the Church and this creates obstacles to the proper pastoral care of – and outreach to – LGBT people. It is right that this is addressed. Nobody would dream of telling a couple in their second or subsequent marriage to get divorced. We would consider that cruel – and probably very impractical - but many Christians are quite happy to demand that LGBT people split from their partners when they come to faith. It is right for us to ask hard questions about whether the Church is guilty of treating LGBT people unequally.

That being said, I cannot help being left frustrated by some of Steve Chalke’s arguments.

Firstly, at one point, he actually questions whether the bible is the Word of God. The bible may not be the Word of God but if he believes that he cannot possibly describe himself as an Evangelical. Evangelicalism without Sola Scripture is about as credible as Roman Catholicism without the Pope. If he is going to make the case for Evangelicals embracing Equal Marriage then he needs to find a biblical basis for doing so.

Secondly, he compares the issue of Equal Marriage with Women’s Ministry and slavery, both of which are false comparisons. Many of the most vocal voices against Equal Marriage – the Roman Catholics and the Conservative Evangelicals – also oppose Women’s Ministry for the reasons he states. All he does is justify their position on Women’s Ministry.  With slavery, Jesus came to “set the captives free” and to set us free from the slavery of sin: so there is a clear gospel mandate to oppose slavery. With the best will in the world, a comparable case cannot be made for Equal Marriage.

Finally, there is Steve Chalke’s track record of challenging basic Christian doctrine. At the centre of the Christian faith is the cross. It is at the cross that justice and mercy meet. It is at the cross that God’s anger at sin is satisfied so we can receive forgiveness for our sins and we are able to be reconciled with God. It is through precisely this message of penal substitution – a message that Steve Chalke has himself challenged – that all of us – the LGBT community included – can find grace and hope.

Rachel Burgin

13 comments:

Anonymous said...

Excellent Article Rachel When Steve Chalk questioned the concept of penal substitution you could hear the shieks from the Evangelical community and indeed and moreover the Bibical minded Christian community throughout the land. One gay Christian once said, I dont like what the Bible teaches on homosexiality, but if I want to live my live for Christ I haveto subdue my feelings for his glory. That is a brave conclusion to make and God is big enough to give that lad grace and strengh to cope with is feelings and to be celebate.

Dale Mcalpine (Cumbria) said...

Rachel, just a couple of observations if you will allow.

You said "When Jesus died on the cross, the curtain of the Temple was torn in two and this enables all people – including all those excluded under Old Testament Law - to have direct access to the Father God"

I would agree with some of this while having to point out, you did not mention repentance, it is true that the curtain was torn from top to bottom and now access is for "all people" but please remember ;

Act 17:30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent,
Act 17:31 because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead."

You see that ? God commands "all people" to repent (turn and forsake their sin) Have you turned from your sin Rachel ?

Now, you also said " For many centuries, the church was almost anti-marriage seeing the monastic life as a more superior way of Christian living than marriage and family. It was only with Martin Luther marrying an escaped nun that things changed."

I have no idea where you got this information from Rachel, seems to me to be some rather broard comments with no evidence of truth attached to them whatsoever, in any case let me remind you of this ;

Mat 8:14 And when Jesus entered Peter's house, he saw his mother-in-law lying sick with a fever.

You see ? Peter had a mother in law and therefore was married. The Church loves marriage because God loves marriage, and the only place where this is discouraged as far as I am aware is in the false church of Rome the RCC.

Mar 10:6 "...But from the beginning of creation, 'God made them male and female.'
Mar 10:7 'Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife,
Mar 10:8 and the two shall become one flesh.' So they are no longer two but one flesh.
Mar 10:9 What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate."

Jesus Christ explains what marriage is Rachel, marriage is between a MAN and a WOMAN.

You also said this "many Christians are quite happy to demand that LGBT people split from their partners when they come to faith. It is right for us to ask hard questions about whether the Church is guilty of treating LGBT people unequally."

And I for one am very happy that there are "many Christians" who demand this, the only hope for LGBT people is that they repent because as Jesus Christ said :

Luk 13:3 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.

Jesus NEVER preached a message of inclusivism, He never taught that you can get to heaven and escape the flames of hell while holding onto your favourite sin Rachel.

The Church is not being unfair when we call people to forsake their sins, whether those sins are sex outside of marriage, adultery, drunkenness, love of pornography or homosexuality. The church is however being guilty as charged of being faithful and I suggest you seek to do the same Rachel, we could do with some real Christians in the political arena.

1Co 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,
1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God

dale

Paul Burgin said...

Dale,

Access for all people does not automatically mean some people accept that access, it is akin to a door being opened and some refusing to go through that door!
As for treatment of LGBT people, I am quite sure that as a Christian, as you are called to, as indeed you are commanded to, you recognise we must love our neighbour as we love ourselves and that includes people we regard as our enemies! That does not mean compromise, that means showing grace and mercy and thought in the same way we ourselves would expect. I would hope you bear that in mind when you make the points that you do! As for inclusivism, there is also grace and mercy and you will never get Christians, and there are plenty of real Christians in the political arena, in politics if they show themselves to be wanting to trample over others, show lack of courtesy and understanding, mercy, grace, thoughtfulness, and consideration. To quote 1 Corinthians Ch 13, unless we have love we are nothing, just a clanging gong or cymbal!

Dale Mcalpine said...

Paul, I have a question for you.

How does your reply relate to what I posted in any way shape or form ?

You have not addressed anything I said in my previous comment meaningfully, you have just replied with a rant about loving people.

Don't you see that your blog posts expose your lack of understanding of fundamental Christian doctrines ?

This worries me greatly coming from professing Christians, I am concerned about your eternal destiny.

Helen (of Moresby) said...

Guys!, I agree with Dale!
Once again I reiterate my comments on your previous posts re homosexuality v Christianity.("I'm back" & "Gay bishops Row") It is true God grants grace & mercy to those He has chosen to save. But He also grants His chosen children repentance.(Sorrow for sin, & turning FROM sin TO God.)
Acts 26:20...I preached that they should repent and turn to God AND PROVE THEIR REPENTANCE BY THEIR DEEDS.
As I've said before, A homosexual who turns to Christ MUST turn from homosexual acts & fantasies, or else they have not proved their repentance by their deeds. I know it sounds harsh in human terms, but we don't make the rules, (Remember the serpent to Eve, "Did God really say?)It's not gay bashing; if we straight people fancy sex with anyone we are not married to biblically, we also have to repent and say no! (And seek God's grace in sorting out our twisted minds!)Of course, repentance applies to all sin, not just sexual.
So, homosexual partnerships prove lack of repentance = not saved. Yes, I know people sin in other ways, but a true Christian will be sensitive to his/her sin & when he sins, will repent & endeavour not to again. To be in a committed gay partnership is giving the message, that someone has NO INTENTION of repenting.

Ah yes, LOVE: As I've said previously, it IS loving to point out error in order to persuade someone of the truth>

Now, it is just possible that you DO agree with everything I say (& Dale!), but as an aspiring polititian feel you have to be economical with the truth & toe some party line in order to be accepted? You hint as such, above?

I won't start on Steve Chalke's anti penal substitution heresy...!!
Glad Rachel & I seem to agree on that one!

Love & kisses!
Helen

Rachel said...

I'm not entirely sure about how Paul talking about love and loving your enemies makes you worry about his eternal destiny. God and God alone gets to decide whether Paul and I will go to heaven. You will have no say in the matter!

The main point of my article was about grace and how we demonstrate that within the church family towards LGBT people. We are all quite happy to accept that no Christian is perfect - even within the church - and we learn to live with each other's imperfections whilst exhorting each other to greater things. The bible views lifetime celibacy as a very high and very noble calling - as demonstrated by Jesus Himself. But it is also extremely costly - and not to entered into lightly or glibly demanded of anyone.

Paul Burgin said...

Gillan Scott of God and Politics has also blogged on the issue and has made several perinent points which I think should be shared here http://godandpoliticsuk.org/2013/01/21/being-gay-steve-chalke-and-where-the-church-has-got-it-wrong/

Helen said...

I have read this article by God & Politics, and disagree with her unbiblical views. She is making the same points as you.

I have read the 40+ comments and thoroughly agree with commentator "Martin", 21 Jan 12.30pm. PLEASE READ!
He explains how the loving pastoral response to LGBT behaviour is to convince the sinner to repent; otherwise they are lost. Loving your sin is no excuse!We are to repent of all known sin, no exceptions! If we want to see people saved we have to tell the truth, even if unpalatable.
Being a Christian is not us, men & women making a decision, but Christ grabbing hold of us,making us a new creation, & doing a work in us, that causes us to repent & TURN from sin; if we refuse to give up a sin eg LGBT as a lifestyle choice, that is evidence that God has not yet saved us & we are still dead in our sin.

Matthew 7:21 Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven,but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day,'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me you evildoers!' - A reminder to all, myself included, to 'Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith.' (2 Cor 13:5)

I really recommend Paul Washer's "Shocking Message" on Youtube - Explains where I am coming from (the Bible!) better than I can!









Matthew 7:21

Helen said...

Ooops! When I referred to Gillan Scott as she/her, I misread it as Gillian!! My bad, as they say on American blogs!

Dale Mcalpine (Cumbria) said...

Rachel said : "I'm not entirely sure about how Paul talking about love and loving your enemies makes you worry about his eternal destiny."

Rachel, I suspect you are aware of this but I need to point out to you that nowhere in any of my posts did I say that because Paul spoke about "love and loving your enemies makes me worry about his salvation"

Please read my comments again.

You will clearly see that I am concerned about both of your standing with God because you are not bearing "good fruit," you are denying fundamental truths of,

1. who God is,

and

2. what His word commands.

Mat 7:18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.

You see Rachel and Paul, saving faith is not merely believing in Jesus, "the demons believe and tremble." (James 2:19,) rather saving faith and the evidence that we possess it manifests a love for God, a love for His Word and a trust in Him and His Word and finally obedience to Him and His word.

The god that you two profess to love is not the same God I love and worship, therefore one of us is wrong about God and does not "know Him":

John 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.

You also said: "God and God alone gets to decide whether Paul and I will go to heaven. You will have no say in the matter!"

True God alone determines where you spend forever, and I will not have any say in this, however because God has given me a love for the lost, I cannot but speak of the things I have seen and heard. I care about you and do not want to see you deceived and deceiving others any longer.

You see Rachel and Paul, if you had real love for the lost you would warn them to flee the wrath to come, you would not be trying to soften the blow for LGBT people and give them false hope, what you are doing, allbeit online on a blog and not in person, is akin to what the false prophets in Jeremiah's time did :

Jer 6:14 They have healed the wound of my people lightly, saying, 'Peace, peace,' when there is no peace.

A last reminder and I'm done here :

Jesus said "unless you repent you will perish" Luke 13:3

and

Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men;...2Cor 5:11

Stephen Glenn said...

Dale and Helen, I've read your comments with interest and refused to comment back until now. The Christ who died for my sins told me to have love for all others. He also when an adulturess was brought before him said to those who had brought her "Let, those with out sin cast the first stone." It also says in the bible "Judge, not lest you too be judged."

Dale you appear to have been throwing stones at my cousin and her husband in what you have said. You appear to also be condemning too people who I know first hand flow with Christ-like love to eternal damnation.

On the subject at hand in which you talk about repentance and quote a lot of Paul to back up you arguments.

Paul also says in 1 Corinthians 7:1-7:

Now for the matters you wrote about: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband. The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife. Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. I say this as a concession, not as a command. I wish that all of you were as I am. But each of you has your own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.

So while Dale, you and a lot of Churches welcome LGBT people providing they are not sexually active, you are asking something that even Paul knows is impossible for a lot of heterosexual people. So therefore are you expecting gay people who come to faith to be granted a gift that even in the early church when they were expecting an eminent return of our Lord so may have been for a few years in their opinion.

Now, you may well condemn me, feel free. I came to faith in a bible believing Northern Irish Presbyterian Church. I say there and knew the passages that you are quoting. So imagine when a few years later when I started to having sexual feelings that I realised that my feelings were not for girls as I was being taught from the pulpit they ought to be.

Now judge me all you want. I've heard it all before. But before you do I want you to know this. Whenever I have sexual relations outside of marriage (because let's face it any time I fall that has to be the case) I do come on bended knee, repent and seek forgiveness.

But also bear in mind that the times that I find it hardest and that I fall and fail and find myself being unable to be a celibate, gay, Christian are the times when the church fails to understand, show me love and actually turns its back on me.

So yes we have a gospel of Grace,it is pity that in the comments on this thread I fail to find evidence of it.

Helen said...

I think there is a difference between 1)the repentant sinner who attempts to follow Christ, yet yields to temptation very occasionally in moments of weakness, and who then experiences genuine conviction & sorrow, & throws themselves upon the mercy of Christ, and 2) the unrepentant sinner who ignores God by committing themselves to a lifestyle (eg permanent relationship blessed by law), which goes against biblical teaching.
I'm not just talking about sex; could equally apply to swearing, drinking etc. I can recognise someone who is genuinely sorry and repentant as a brother in Christ - so long as they don't succomb too often!
(not that that is a license to sin! And don't ask what constitutes often!)

Paul Burgin said...

With the last two comments in mind I am ending this discussion, if it is being treated as a discussion by all! I do not see what can be gained from further comment and I have seen more than one, in fact I know of several people, who have been hurt by this comment thread, so with that in mind I think this is one of those times when discussion on the subject should cease, at least for the time being