I will be honest, and this pains me. My first reaction was confusion (understandable), as I had hardly heard of the name if at all, followed by disappointment given his nationality. You see I was looking at this from a Worldly and nationalistic perspective (as an Englishman), and remembering Argentina's troubled past and it's hostility at times to the UK.
But God is bigger than that and one cannot judge every Argentine and what we saw from Pope Francis last night in his first address, was humility, grace, and a love of the people in St Peters' Square and for Christians around the World. If I prayed to God for the right result, and millions of others also, then one must accept the result given and from what I have seen of Pope Francis so far, his name, his reputation as Archbishop of Buenos Aires, his humility on the main balcony of St Peters' Basilica, I sense God's presence and will and trust in that and feel ashamed of my initial negative response triggered by my fears and political concerns
18 comments:
The Catholic Church did what any good business does it looks at the markets where the product it forces down peoples throats is believe in and then targets that market.
South America has a large following and there for the appointment of this CEO is tactically very astute as it will get support from the emerging market and thus grow the business in this area.
If you look at it from a business point of view it makes perfect sense
K
I like James White's "Habemus a Problemo: Thoughts on the Papal Election". (James White, Alpha & Omega Ministries Apologetics Blog) - Try!
But Chris the Catholic Church is not a business! Helen, from what I have read of it, which was a small blog piece, it looks like he is viewing the Roman Catholic Church from the Prism of the 16th Century. If the Roman Catholic Church was still the same he may have a point, but it has moved much since then. I don't agree with everything the Roman Catholic Church says and does, but I do see plenty of Bible beliving Christians who believe that Christ died for their sins and rose again who are Roman Catholic!
Re the James White link: Actually an hour long radio prog/phone in (in his own inimitable style!).
Makes some points which are food for thought! But I wouldn't expect you to agree with an old Calvinist like me!, or indeed him! (Don't delete now, you are too liberal for that!!)
Well I don't have much time to spend over an hour listening to a radio show online to be fair, especially one where I will need to listen carefully before passing firm judgement
Paul, how can you say the church is not a business. Look at it. CofE the Catholic Church, Friends House they are all businesses. Their business is religion they use twitter Facebook and all the other marketing tools to sell their product.
Now you will say they don't sell it. But I bet every time you go to church you put between £2-£5 in the collection and maybe buy a candle or some postcards.
Particularly the Catholic church I mean look at the Vatican running that with its staff and security detail and bullet proof golf buggies. God did not just make them appear
Chris, you insult Paul by suggesting he only puts £2-5 in the collection.
I remember my then vicar saying 15 years ago, that the parish share alone, which each church owes to the diocese averaged out at £11 per person per week. - Must be more now! To say nothing of the additional money which needs to be given to support other ministries of the local church.
Of course, we don't give merely on business principles, but as a gift to God out of gratitude for saving us FROM our sins, TO a life of service, in this world and the next.
Helen
You know how to save yourself from your sin it really simple you don't have to pay god to do it you just have to........wait for it......
NOT COMMIT ANY SINS
Chris, the main aim of a business is to make a profit. The main aim of a church is to shepherd souls. Buying and selling is just a tiny part of how a church is run
Helen, I see your point, ideally, for me, giving money to the church is to help the church help those less well off and for it's upkeep. But how much or how little I give to the church is no one's business but God's and mine
Chris. Helen did not say saving oneself from sin, that is impossible, but that only God can, which is the main tenet of the Christian faith. That Christ died for our sins and rose again and that we rely on his grace and mercy
Paul with that statement you affirm by believe in the way religion works.
See Religion forces you to sin to be bad to kill and war and fight.
So Religion say come to us and donate you money you will be giving it to the poor not to pay of the families of the boys we abuse.
Faith say have a conversation with whatever you chose to have faith in - white dude with a beard, strange elephant man, tree, Brian Cox. Clear your conscience and you will rest in peace you will end your day rotting in a box but you will be happy with your life and reach some "Heavenly" state.
Why do you need a church to have faith???
Chris, the Bible says:
'If we claim to be without sin we deceive ourselves'(1 John 1:8)
'There is no-one who does good, not even one' (Romans 3:12)
The 10 commandments (Exodus 20)were given to ancient Israel to show people that they, (and everyone who ever lived)were guilty of breaking all of them. We have all broken ALL of them, by not giving God due honour, and by lying, stealing,and committing murder & adultery in our hearts & minds, even if not physically.
So, the 10 commandments show us its impossible to save ourselves by not sinning. We can't NOT sin, and because God is holy, he cannot have His heaven polluted by unholy people. That's why he sent Jesus, the only sinless person to take the punishment for sin we deserved.Jesus then works in us on earth to make us more like Him, it takes a lifetime cos we still sin, but we will be perfect & sinless in heaven.
- This only applies to those who accept Christ's offer of mercy, those who reject Christ go to hell. 'Whoever believes in him is not condemned,but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one & only son... Light has come into the world,(Jesus), but men loved darkness instead of light,because their deeds were evil.'(John 3:18-19)
REPENT (turn from sin/wrongdoing) AND BELIEVE THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST!
Yes, bad things have been done in the name of religion, but could it be these were not true converts?
Bad things have been done in the name of medicine, but that does not mean you don't go near a doctor. (And politics?!)
Chris said "Why do you need to go to church to have faith? You don't, but the Bible commands Christians to meet together to encourage one another. And, if you're not converted, you should hear the gospel in a bible-believing church! (How can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? How can they hear without someone preaching to them?(Romans 10:14)
(Paul, of course it's between you & God what you give, I would not presume to know, care, or judge, I was only making the point that Chris's assumption of £2-5 is a little dated!)
Chris, I pray Christ finds you.
Just a few points her Helen
1) The Bible was written by Man and given that so called Christian fractions like the Mormons, Scientologists, Children of God, Moonies, KKK, Branch Davidians and the Peoples Temple all read and use the bible as there guiding book I question how anyone can say the words in it are "Gospel"
2) I agree that bad things have been done in politics or medicine. However most people research them before doing anything, if you move to a new area you ask for recommendation about the local practices - Paul here does a very good job of informing people of how one set of politicians have made the wrong/right decision about maters that effect our life, but people just blindly follow the Church without question.
I am 37 and only in the last 2/3 years would I now say if pressed for a religion that I am Quaker as their version of faith seem to fit with mine and revolves around basic values of people and faith.
3) You state that jesus was a sinless person, how do you know - your so called guiding book discussed he birth, then at the temple aged 12 in the temple when he trashed the place (that a very sinless deed) then between the age of 30-33 when he does all the jesus bit.
So you’re telling me that in the gap he was not a normal young boy working with his dad as a carpenter, drinking in the tavern, chatting up girls, taken them back to his bedroom etc. It takes faith to believe that he did all the miracles he did. It is just stupidity to believe that he was something other than man of that era with normal urges of man.
4) As for your assumption that I have not found Christ well maybe I should pray that one day you will not be blinded by religion to see that it is only 2013 years old and that man has been around for 200,000 years and have had faith and beliefs all that time. The church just uses what was popular to create a Christian days. There is no proof that Christ was born on the 25th December but there were many pagan festivals of winter then that people already celebrated.
Several points.
1) With regards to comparing various "Christian" traditions, there is the caveat, "By their deeds you shall know them!"
2)Christ did not trash the temple, he dealt with the moneylenders in the outer courts, and that was during his ministry. Plus you cannot judge all teenage and young adult behaviour into one lump!
3) Yes, Christ was likely not born on Dec 25th, probably early September given the fact there were shepherds in the fields, but the fact is at least Christ's birth is being celebrated. It does not matter when!
Chris,
What I wrote is what the bible teaches.
1. It WAS written by man, but under divine inspiration: 'All scripture is God breathed'(2 Timothy 3:16) True, the false religions you quote claim to use the bible, but they add to it with false teachings of their own. (The bible warns that those who add or take away from scripture will not be saved & go to heaven, Revelation 22:18-19).
2. Being a Quaker will not save you nor let you into heaven as Quakerism is also a cult, that does not believe biblical Christianity. Quakers believe in an "Inner light", that everyone has a divine spirit in them,that can respond to God. The bible teaches otherwise; that 'no-one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again...of..the (Holy)Spirit'.
3.The Bible says 'he committed no sin' (1 Peter 2:22). So, he cannot have had sex outside marriage, as this is a sin. Jesus was fully human & fully God,'tempted in every way, just as we are - yet was without sin'(Hebrews 4:15)
4.You obviously haven't found Christ, else you wouldn't be speaking so disrespectfully of Him. I'm not judging, just observing facts! But I pray you do find Him/He finds you, else there's no hope for you. You cannot EARN salvation by trying to be good or not being bad, cos we all fail by nature, but by admitting we have offended a holy God by being less than holy ourselves. Then we must trust Christ to make our peace with God by His sacrificial death.
Try reading a gospel,say The Gospel of John, or the letters in the New Testament. Thats how I came to believe when I was 25.
Helen
I am ending this discussion your blindness naivety to the real world is amazing.
I am guessing you also believe that those who believe in Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam are all not going to heaven. I am guessing you think ever person wearing a turban is a terrorist.
I am guessing you think the world was made in 6 days and on the 7th day god well had a little sleep and a rest after all he worked hard.
I am guessing you are well just part of my rib bone really they was taken and made into woman.
I am guessing you avoid snakes in case they whisper bad things to you. Oh and on that I am betting the snake was gutted.
God – Snake did you tempt Adam and Eve
Snake – YESSSSSSSSSS
God – your punishment will be that forever more you will be force to crawl on your belly
Snake – But I already......... Oh never mind
I am guessing you think that Homosexuals can’t have long happy lives together because that is what your new archbishop says
Your reference to Quakerism just show you complete lack of understanding The Quaker way has deep Christian roots that form our understanding of God, our faith, and our practices. Many Quakers consider themselves Christian, and some do not. Many Quakers today draw spiritual nourishment from our Christian roots and strive to follow the example of Jesus. Many other Quakers draw spiritual sustenance from various religious traditions, such as Buddhism, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, and the nature religions
Then again all that mixing of faith that’s the devils work if it not one true pure Christian race then it must be sinful (sounds very Aryan)
You call Quakerism a cult but then what is the definition of a cult
Cult - A system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object
So Christianity is a Religious veneration and devotion directed toward god
I think god is a particular figure or object thus making Christianity....... Yes you guessed it a CULT
Of course the bible says he committed no sin...... they are not going to tell the truth I mean if your man JC was anything but a 33 year old virgin, which I might add for people of that era background and life style was of course the norm, then that would make him normal an fallible and well Human we would not want that.
Also for the record living in that part of the world there was not chance he was a white guy with blue eyes and beard.
'The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness,since what may be known about God is plain to them,because God has made it plain to them.
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities- his eternal power and divine nature- have been clearly seen,being understood from what has been made, so that men are WITHOUT EXCUSE.
For although they knew God,they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools,and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served created things, rather than the Creator-who is forever praised, Amen.
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts.Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
Futhermore, since they did not think it worth while to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed, and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips,slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they are senseless, faithless, heartless,ruthless.
Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death,they not only continue to do these things, but ALSO APPROVE OF THOSE WHO PRACTISE THEM'. The Bible, ROMANS 1:18-32
When your argument runs out you quote a Bible passage at me to defend your comments
That it like quoting a passage out of Mien Kampf to defend whas is written in the book or saying that because it was written the Harry Potter book there has to be wizards somewhere.
I hope you realise that your narrow minded, bigoted, homophobic views are not very Christian.
Christianity is not about what is written in a book it is about actions and it about love harmony, acceptance.
The word peace is used in the Bible in a very broad sense. It takes in the wellbeing and health of people, as well as the absence of violence. Christians pray for the end of conflict between nations and religions. But they are also called to promote harmony in their communities, families and anywhere that they can make a practical difference. (Not my words but from http://www.christianity.org.uk/index.php/justice-and-peace.php)
Was it not the Sermon on the Mount that said:
Ye have heard that it hath been said. An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
But I say unto you, that ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
You did not turn the other cheek you cast out my views as wrong you made me your enemy and saw me as evil. You chose to crush my beliefs because they were not yours and I have acceptance and an open mind to learn and understand about other people.
This is the huge difference between us I may not agree with your views and I like a good argument but in the end I accept your beliefs. They are yours you have chosen your path and I hope that it brings you happiness.
I hope that when I am at home with my loving wife and children in a happy stable but obviously evil family that God brings you comfort.
I hope that when I bring my daughters up to have acceptance of all faith to understand that each person is different and will make a choice that meets their needs and they will always be loved by their family.
I hope that the youth of today will not be as blinkered as those that have gone before them and learn acceptance and therefore stop the any further atrocities in the name of Religion and things like the Religious cleansing by the Crusades, the Islamic Terrorism, the Northern Ireland Conflict.
Did you know that the both the Thirty Year War and the Crusades each killed approximately 2% of the world population and in the case of the Thirty Year they were fighting over the same God and you can’t say that there were “not true converts” as it was the Church that was spear heading the war.
You may judge me for my views but was it not Mathew that said
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. ...
I am going to end with the words of his His Holiness the Dalai Lama
he said “it is wonderful that so many different religions exist in the world. Just as one food will not appeal to everybody, one religion or one set of beliefs will not satisfy everyone's needs. Therefore, it is extremely beneficial that a variety of different religions is available from which to choose. I welcome and rejoices at this.”
Have a great day
Chris said:
Cult - A system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object
Actually, from a Christian perspective, in addition to the above definition a cult is a faith-based group that cannot agree to the tenets of the Apostle's Creed which lays out the "essentials" of the Christian faith.
Lots more info here http://winformation.us/upci/cults.htm
~Laurie
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